2 Corinthians 4:7–18
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well good morning it's always a delight for me to be at uh third avenue baptist church always enjoy worshiping with you the singing is always so amazing here and encouraging to me and at clifton we feel a special partnership with third we we so appreciate you praying for us and And we pray for you as we labor together in Louisville.
So my text today is 2 Corinthians chapter 4, verses 7 through 18. 2 Corinthians chapter 4, starting in verse 7 until verse 18. We'll read that passage momentarily. When we read this text, we see that God gives us strength when we suffer. We may wonder, why does God put us through difficult times in our lives?
And this text tells us, that's what this text is all about, so that we see we can't make it without Him. So that we see every day that we need His grace. Because when Hannah in 1 Samuel was grieving over not being able to have children, she learned in that situation to depend on the Lord. Elijah won a great victory, you remember, in 1 Kings over the prophets of Baal.
Doubtless he thought that a revival was about to spring up, but it didn't happen that way. And Elijah was discouraged and fearful, and he went to Mount Sinai to meet the Lord, and the Lord encouraged him afresh, trust in me, I know what I'm doing, my plan is being carried out. The great preacher, Charles Spurgeon, was known for his astounding gifts as a preacher.
Crowds surged to hear him. But if you know his story, you know that he suffered from gout. And maybe some of you suffer from gout yourself. I haven't, but it's incredibly, I've had close friends tell me it's incredibly painful. And not only did he suffer from gout, but he suffered from bouts of depression that struck him. You know, God brought those difficulties in the Spurgeon's life intentionally. So, Spurgeon wouldn't, I take it, exalt in himself, but that he would put his trust in the Lord.
God doesn't bring, maybe you're going through a hard time now, God doesn't bring hard times into our lives because He hates us. Because He's against us. Noah, as His children, He loves us, but He wants us to learn afresh. The Lord is our sun. The Lord is our shield. The Lord is our fortress. He's our rock. Those aren't just words. Those are realities that we cling to in the hardest times in our lives. You know, it's comforting to know that the Apostle Paul learned that lesson as well. He also suffered and found the Lord to be his strength in suffering. In fact, we see in 2 Corinthians as a whole, in this letter, Paul is the most vulnerable of all his letters. He opens up his heart to us.
why would we not open up our hearts to someone? It could be pride, right? We don't want someone to see that we're weak. But Paul admits freely in this letter, I'm weak. And Paul's transparent in this letter. He's honest about what he's facing. So, we learn from the Apostle Paul, And Paul, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, passes on to us what he learned.
Well, let's read our text for today, 2 Corinthians chapter 4, verses 7 through 18. But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed, perplexed, but not driven to despair. persecuted but not forsaken, struck down but not destroyed, always carrying in the body the death of Jesus so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So, death is at work in us, but life in you. Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, I believed and so I spoke, we also believe
and so we also speak, knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you also into his presence for it is all for your sake so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving to the glory of God so we do not lose heart though our outer nature is wasting away our inner nature is being renewed day by day for this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen.
For the things that are seen are transient but the things that are unseen are eternal. So I'm going to lift out four truths from this text. There's many more things we could say, but the four truths, if you're taking notes, are this. First, we're jars of clay, verse 7, we're jars of clay, we're broken pottery really. Second, verses 8 and 9, we live upside down lives as Christians.
We live upside down lives, that's verses 8 and 9. 10 through 15. I won't cover everything in those verses, but verses 10 through 15, our suffering, our suffering helps others. God brings suffering into our lives so that we can be of a benefit to others. And fourth and lastly, verses 16 through 18, seeing the unseen, seeing the unseen gives us hope as we look at what is unseen.
So, let's begin with verse 7, we're jars of clay. Let's read that verse again. Paul says, but we have this treasure in clay jars, so that the extraordinary power may be from God and not from us. So, what's the treasure that we have in the clay jars? What is the treasure? I think the treasure is the gospel. That's what Paul was preaching. It was the good news about Jesus Christ, crucified and risen. That's what we celebrate at Christmas. We celebrate His birth, right? But His birth led to His ministry and His death and His resurrection from the dead.
And that's the good news we preach. Jesus is the crucified and risen Savior, and therefore there's forgiveness for sins. There's freedom from guilt, and we all share in that guilt. There's a clean slate that we can have through Jesus Christ. The treasure is that God welcomes sinners to come home to Him. And if you're an unbeliever today, that's what He's saying to you.
he's saying, sinner, sinner, come home. Return to me. Return to me, and there will be a full pardon. That's the treasure. That's the gospel. That's what we celebrate at Christmas, that treasure of forgiveness of sins. The treasure is put your trust, put your trust in Jesus instead of putting your trust in yourself. Don't rely on your own works, what you've accomplished. That is not sufficient. Put your trust entirely in the Lord.
You know, if you're an unbeliever, you might think when you hear something like that or you're around believers in here, you might think, well, Christians are particularly strong people. I have unbelieving friends, even unbelieving family, and sometimes they'll say to me, oh, Tom, you're so good. And then I'll say to them, no, that's not right. That's not… I'm just a… I don't say this to them. They don't understand this lingo, but I'm just a clay jar, right? I'm not so good. We're weak. That's what this text is saying to us.
The good news about Jesus is in clay jars like us. We are easily shattered and easily broken like pottery. We're weak. You're weak. We're fallible. Yet God has designed it that the gospel is proclaimed by such weak and fallible vessels. And why has God done it this way? Well, it's easy to see. It's right there in the text, isn't it? So that people won't look at us, but at God. They will see the power belongs to God and not to us. That's easily understandable. I think everybody in this room would agree with us, but we still, we live in a celebrity culture, don't we? And sometimes Christians even fall into it. Sometimes Christians get entranced with so-called Christian superstars. They may be
starstruck with the ministry of a famous pastor or an evangelist or maybe even a professor once in a while, right? They may practically swoon over the person, but the whole thing is off-center. isn't it? Because they're looking at the clay jar instead of at God. Actually, there are no superstars, right? We're all ordinary people. What is this text saying? We're all ordinary, but we serve an extraordinary God. I've seen some people, they get disillusioned as they get to know a Christian they admire. For when they get to know Him, they see chinks in his armor. I'm not talking about here pastors or Christians who have significant sin in their lives. I'm not talking about that. But everybody has chinks in their
armor. We're all clay jars, and yet they get a disillusion. I've even seen some where they'll say, I don't want to be a believer. It repels them, even in a few cases, from the Christian faith, or they become very cynical about the people we meet. But what does this text remind us? We're just clay jars, right? We look at Jesus. We don't look. Paul's saying, don't look fundamentally at me. Look to Christ. You know, those who lose their faith, I don't think a true Christian ultimately can lose their faith, but those who lose their faith because of the weakness of those whom they meet, what does that reveal? Really, their faith wasn't
in God in the first place, was it? Their faith was somewhere else. Many years ago, there was a woman in our church, delightful person, but she called me rabbi. She called me rabbi. You know, at first it was kind of funny, but then I began to see she put extraordinary trust in me. So I said to her one day, I said, you know what? I'm not your Messiah.
I'm not your Messiah. And I said, you know, I sensed something bad was starting to happen. I said, you know, a day is going to come where I'm going to disappoint you. I'm going to let you down in some way. And that could be a very difficult time for you. Well, it's exactly what happened. One day we disagreed on something, and our relationship, that was it. It was over. But you know, she put too much trust in me in the first place. We're clay jars, aren't we? Where's the treasure? The treasure, God uses minister, God uses pastors, but the treasure isn't in us fundamentally at the end of the day. The treasure is in the gospel. God is our fortress.
He's our strength. The power, any power comes from Him. It doesn't come from us. So, second, we live upside-down lives. That's verses 8 and 9. We're afflicted, Paul says, in every way, but not crushed. We're perplexed, but not in despair. We are persecuted, but not abandoned. We are struck down, but not destroyed. These verses capture the paradox of the Christian life. God arranges and directs our lives. Does He do this for you? He does. He arranges and directs our lives so that we feel our weakness, our fallibility. So, we feel that.
He arranges and directs our lives. He arranges and directs your life that way, so you feel that in your life, so that you can experience God's strength in the midst of that weakness. So, what does that life look like? Well, He tells us four things, doesn't He? First, we're afflicted. Only Christians use that word, as far as I can see, the word afflicted anymore, but that word actually literally means to have to be pressed on. So, God brings into our lives pressures, doesn't He? Stresses, difficulties. We don't, we don't, sometimes we do, but typically we don't sail through life. We struggle. We struggle as we live. If you're struggling instead of sailing right now, that's what God intends for you. That's not an accident. And if
you're sailing, praise God, right? James says, if things are going well, rejoice. But it's not always that way, is it? Second, we're often perplexed. I remember when I enrolled in seminary so many years ago, 1976, that was a long time ago. I remember thinking, I was 22 years old, I remember thinking, seminary is going to answer every question I have. This is going to be great.
All my questions will be answered. And seminary did answer a lot of my questions. But it also raise new questions, and there are questions that still aren't answered to this day, and there are perplexities in life. There are things we don't fully understand. There are things that happen that make us wonder sometimes. Perhaps you've experienced this. Does God really love me? Does God really care about me? Has He forgotten about me? How could this be happening to me? There are things that happen in our lives that are baffling to us, and not just our lives, but the lives of others that we love.
And not just in the lives of others we love, but even in history, right? I mean, you look at you look at Ukraine, what's happening right now, and we want that situation to be resolved, don't we, justly and righteously. Our children, if you have children, may grow up in a way you never dreamed or imagined. So, we may be tempted through the suffering to become cynical about the Christian faith. And perhaps, as I mentioned earlier, perhaps we become cynical.
Cynicism is a great danger the longer you live. Satan wants us to become cynical, especially as you see the faults and foibles of others, and you'll see them. And Satan wants you to become cynical instead of what to love in the midst of that. Third, Christians are also persecuted. You know, you might think we'd be celebrated and thanked. We have a message that gives life and hope, that promises a future of happy tomorrows that never end.
What a message we have, right? That's the message of life. Nobody else has that message. We might think people all over the world would just say to us, everywhere, all people, thank you, thank you. You're bringing the message of life to us. That's amazing. Thank you so much. But instead, we are thanked sometimes, but we're often criticized and rejected. Often people say, oh, you're so close-minded. I remember talking to my sister one day, one of my sisters, I have four sisters, many years ago, and telling her that I didn't think Muslims and Hindus who didn't believe in Jesus were going to heaven. And she kept saying to me, she's very sweet, by the way, so she said it very sweetly. She kept saying to me
all day long. She calls me Tommy. Tommy! She's seven years older than me. Tommy, you're so narrow-minded. I didn't know you were so narrow-minded, Tommy. And then a couple hours would go by, and then she'd say it to me again the same day. Oh, Tommy! I never knew you were so narrow-minded. Yes, believers are persecuted. That's a very minor persecution, isn't it? To have a sister who really loves me say that to me, it's not a big deal. But others have given their lives for Christ and are persecuted in a significant way. All over the world this is happening. I mean, we could say we don't even know how many believers are suffering in North Korea or Somalia or Nigeria, and we could name other countries. Some today are dying. They're giving their lives for Jesus. Just remember sometimes to pray for them, right? Just remember them from time to time at least. Maybe put it on your calendar at least once a month. Pray for our
brothers and sisters. We're going to meet them someday. They're suffering for Jesus' sake. forth, we're cast down. That's another way of saying we suffer, right? We're knocked down in life. We face many, many troubles, many toils, as the hymn says, and dangers and snares. Sometimes, sometimes a wave comes into our life and knocks us down when we least expect it.
Life is not a perpetual vacation in Hawaii. It's not like a stroll, at least not all the time. It's not like taking a stroll on a beautiful beach. And as I said, the waves can come at a surprising time. I remember one time I was swimming. We lived for six years in Los Angeles. I was swimming in the ocean there. I thought I'd cleared the waves. I was just walking back up the beach, and boom, a wave came and hit me and just slammed me right down on the beach. but I was fine. But that's the way life can be, right? When we don't expect it, something difficult and shocking can come into our lives. There are many pains and many sorrows, but having said that, Paul is not fundamentally negative here, is he? He's fundamentally optimistic because notice that he doesn't just talk about the negative, but the positive. The Christian life is paradoxical. In the midst of those hard times, God is with us. Yes, we face pressures and
trials and difficulties, but God will not allow them to crush us. He promises grace and strength in every situation. You know, I'm so conscious up here. Some of you are facing that right now. Some of you are in really difficult, hard situations, and it's hard to believe words like I'm saying right now. You know, we need the Holy Spirit to apply this to our lives, because you might think, or you might be looking into the future and saying, I could never face, I could never face, I could never deal with such and such a situation. I couldn't do it. But the answer is, with God's grace, you can, and you will, not because you're strong. He will give you the grace you need. The pressures may not go away, but they won't triumph over you. Second, in the same way, our perplexity could lead to despair.
Yes, there's many unanswered questions in life. There are many puzzles, and there's many mysteries. And as Christians, we don't claim we can answer every question. You know, sometimes as Christians, we feel like if we're talking to an unbeliever, we've got to answer every question. But most of you are experienced enough to know now. That's not true, right? It's good to give answers where we can give them. But finally, people aren't looking for answers to every question. And there aren't answers to every question. There's answers to lots of questions, I realize. I don't want to overemphasize that there aren't answers, but you think of the book of Job in his sufferings and in his hard time. And Job again and again and again in the book, what does he say?
I want a court date with God. I want to meet God in court, and I want God to quit being so scary and terrifying, because God is so scary and terrifying, when we have this court case, I'm going to be afraid to say what I want to say. So, I want this court case with God, and I want to say to God, why is all this happening to me? But when he finally meets God, it doesn't happen that way at all, does it? God appears to him in all His majesty and glory, and at the end of the day, Job doesn't need a court case with God.
He doesn't need to adjudicate and arbitrate his case. What does he need? He needs God himself. And that's how the book ends, right? Job says, now I've met you. Now I've had an experience with God. Despair says there's no hope. Things will only get worse. But God's word says, hope in God. for I will again praise him, my salvation and my God. Third, yes, we're also, we're persecuted, and some are even put to death for their faith, but God will sustain us when we're persecuted.
Have you ever thought, I've thought, I wonder how I would respond if I were tortured, because, As my wife knows, and my whole family knows, I'm the wimp of all wimps, right? I don't like any pain at all, but, and I think, how would I do it? But God gives the grace when that hour comes, doesn't He? It isn't finally in our own strength that we suffer. If God calls you to suffer in such a way, it seems unlikely in a room like this that any of us will suffer by giving our lives, but you never know. You never know what might happen in our lives. And some of us may be called upon to give our lives for Jesus' sake. Let's remember this. That's a great privilege.
That's a great honor. That's what the Bible says. What a great honor. You need God's grace, but what a great honor to give your life for the King of kings if He calls upon you to do it. And we don't forget Psalm 116. The death of believers is precious in God's sight. The death of every one of God's children is precious in His sight. He will be with us.
Sometimes, fourthly, we're struck down as believers. Life may hit us in the face so that we're reeling from what happened. Ten years ago, many of you know this story. 10 years ago, my wife almost died in a bike accident, and my little world was turned upside down in that accident. But you know, in the midst of that, I've often said it was almost like my second conversion. I'm not saying it was, but God just drew very near to me in that time through the love of our church. Really, many people from this church expressed great love for us as well, an assistant, and the seminary, and I saw the love of God's people in a way I'd never experienced before, and God Himself drew very near. And that's what Scripture says, Isaiah 43, 2,
when you pass through the waters, I will be with you, and through the rivers they shall not overwhelm you. When you walk through fire, you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. Third, our suffering, the suffering God brings, it brings benefit to others. It helps others, verses 10 through 15. You know, we don't just suffer for ourselves. We suffer for the community, for the church, for the people of God, for others. We don't just live private lives.
God uses our sufferings for the sake of others. Verse 10, Paul says that He carries in His body the death of Jesus. I think that refers to suffering, so that the life of Jesus will be manifested. I mean, he mentions in this text, right, the resurrection. Before death, before resurrection comes death, right? Suffering and then life. Or verse 11, we're given over to death for Jesus' sake. Yeah, I think again Paul's thinking of suffering there, being given over to death again so that the life of Jesus will shine through our bodies. Our suffering becomes the means by which the power of Jesus shines through us. Our lives then follow the pattern of Jesus' death and resurrection, suffering, death, and then the power of God represents life. Or we see in verse 12, so death, Paul says, is at work in us. I think Paul's thinking of himself as an apostle.
death is at work in us, but life in you. Paul's suffering brings life to others. So, God uses the suffering we experience to make others stronger. Our death, our sufferings, God uses for the benefit of growing and building up others in the faith. Whenever I read this text, I think of Joseph Bailey. A few of you may know that name. He used to write for a magazine called Eternity, and Eternity magazine was the precursor to World magazine, which many of you have heard of.
Joseph Bailey lost three children, he and his wife. One died at birth, one died at around the age of five, and one died as a teenager. I heard him, when I was a seminary student, come speak on that matter in our chapel. That's death, isn't it? Death working in him and his family. And yet, and yet, God had worked in Joseph Bailey in a powerful way because I instantly sensed being around him that instead of those sufferings making him bitter, which we can understand that they had softened him. And Joseph Bailey and his wife, they had a powerful ministry to people who had lost children, because through their suffering, they were able, and who wants to go through that? Nobody. But through their suffering, they were able
to encourage and strengthen others. If you've had a period of discouragement and depression, God can use that to help others who are discouraged and depressed. I have a dear friend who's had three miscarriages. It was agonizing and so difficult. But ever since then, she has had such a significant ministry of encouraging and strengthening and grieving with other women who've had miscarriages.
Death, death leads to life. It becomes a vehicle for ministry. Verse 15, our sufferings are for the benefit of others. Indeed, everything, everything, do you believe this? Everything is for your benefit. He's talking about suffering here. Everything is ultimately for your benefit. So that as the grace extends through more and more people, it may cause thanksgiving to increase to the glory of God.
As you suffer, you receive God's comfort and strength, and you pass that along to others. That gives glory and praise to God, Paul is saying. We say to one another in the midst of our suffering, praise God. He gets all the glory for helping us in our time of need. fourth and lastly seeing the unseen gives us hope verse 16 therefore we do not give up even though our outer person is being destroyed our inner person is being renewed day by day for our momentary light affliction is producing for us an absolutely incomparable eternal weight of glory so we do not focus on what is seen but what is unseen for what is seen is temporary but what is unseen is eternal. Life is so hard sometimes. That's what Paul says, verse 16. Sometimes we want to give up. We're discouraged. We want to give in. But Paul reminds us, this is why you
should hang in there. This is why you shouldn't lose heart. This is why you shouldn't give up despite the difficulties we face. So, Paul's saying, Christian, stay encouraged. One thing that can discourage us, I suppose it depends on your age. A lot of you are young, right? But one thing that can discourage us, it can happen if you're young too, but our bodies are getting weaker. Well, I guess they get stronger, right, until sometime in your 20s, but then they start to decline, don't they? Our bodies start going south. I remember a song by the music group Chicago, and the song was getting stronger every day. Do you remember that song, some of you?
well, actually, we could sing Getting Weaker every day, right? Our bodies are slowly falling apart, but our physical declension won't discourage us if we're focused on the right things, because the inner self is being renewed day by day by the grace of God. Some people are obsessed with their bodies. They act like their bodies are going to last forever.
They spend too much time making them beautiful, or they spend an inordinate amount of time exercising. Now, neither of these things are bad in themselves, right? It's a matter of extent, isn't it? It's a matter of focus. Paul says, physical exercise is of some benefit. And in fact, it's wise. It's a good stewardship. So, it's a matter of how much time one gives to this. But we can make a God. Some people do in our culture, and they make a God out of their bodies. How many people in our culture spend the majority of their time, or at least vast amounts of time, more than is warranted, on working out on what will become a corpse at the end of the day? That doesn't make much sense if you think about it. The important thing is inner renewal. God is working on our character. He wants us to become more like Jesus so that we're conformed to the image of His Son. And the pressures of life,
the struggles of life, are forming us into the image of Jesus, and they remind us, because we need that reminder. They remind us, we're dying. We're dying. Every gray hair, every hair that falls out, right? Every wrinkle, every injury, every sickness. It's a forecast, isn't it? It's a little prelude of what's coming. Death is coming. Well, what's God teaching us?
He's reminding us, look at your troubles. Look at your troubles in the light of eternity. God's bringing those sufferings into our lives to sanctify us. In the light of eternity, what does He say here? Our troubles, our pains, our stresses, they're temporary and trivial. You know, this is very important. Paul doesn't say, I used to read it this way, but it struck me one day. Paul's not saying our troubles are trivial. He doesn't say that, you know? He's not saying, you know, if we talk to another Christian, oh, those are your troubles, they're trivial, right? No big deal. That's not what he says. No, he's not saying our troubles are trivial. No, he says in the light of eternity, they're trivial. That doesn't mean they're not significant when they come. Just one illustration of this from my own life. I mean, I'm 68 years old. I worked, my dad was a nurseryman. You know,
we had 50 to 100 high school and college kids that worked for him every summer. So, most summers I was working, but every once in a while, so I have three brothers as well, and my sisters, we all worked out there. But every once in a while, my dad would say, boys, especially, I'm going to give you a day off today. We're like, yes, we got very few days off. Yes, and then too many times what would happen is he'd change his mind. He'd change his mind, and he'd say, you know what, boys, we really need to get this work done today. And I remember when I was young, that would just tick me off. And the whole day, I was so mad because I was going to get a day off and be able to spend time with my friends, and then he'd change his mind, and we had to work. How many times did that happen? I'd be so ticked off. But guess what? I look back now and think, it wasn't a big deal.
Right perspective, right? Yeah, at the time, it was very annoying to me. But now, in light of eternity, and many years going later, well, it wasn't a big deal. Isn't that what Paul's saying here? Our sufferings, they're real. They matter. And they're not only small, but they're small in comparison to the glory and to the beauty that is coming. He promises us an eternal way of glory.
He promises a future of glorious joy that we can't even imagine now. And every trial, every pain, every heartache will be worth it. And we'll see that more clearly than we do now. But God wants us to believe that now, and He wants us, I would say, He wants us to use our imaginations and to envision the future world, that future world that is coming. It's sort of like, I think it's sort of like going to a movie. We all have the experience of a movie lifting us out of ourselves and transporting us to another world, especially if the movie is a happy one. If you're going through a hard time, it can distract you, right, from what's going on of your life, and it can move you into another realm while you're watching that movie.
And that's what God is calling upon us to do as well, by faith, to envision the world that is coming, because we're not experiencing it, but He wants us to envision that world by faith, and to even use our imaginations rooted in the Word of God to say, that's the ultimate reality. Not the world we're in now, which is a real world, and we have real trials and real difficulties, but the world that lasts forever is the ultimate reality, the world we do not see.
And that's not to say discouragement and hard times are completely absent, but in the midst of these things, we have hope. We have hope that there is a new world coming, that the Son of God is coming, that the days of trials and difficulties will end, and we will see Jesus in all His power and all His glory. As I close, I think Proverbs chapter 4 verse 18 catches what Paul teaches here.
The Proverbs says, the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, which shines brighter and brighter until full day. I've always loved that verse. The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn. But when dawn first comes, the difference between light and darkness isn't very evident. But it will shine brighter and brighter. You know, we may be at points in our lives where we think, I don't see the full light yet, but the full brightness of the future, it's coming. That first light of dawn, it can come at the strangest times. Maybe it will come while you're sitting in your room and you're very, very lonely. Or maybe that light of dawn comes when you're sitting and reading God's Word. As 1 John says, the darkness is passing away. It's not gone, but the darkness
is passing away, and the true light is already shining. So, may God today shine on you, third avenue, and pour out His grace upon you. May He give you hope in the midst of your sufferings, and may he give you joy this Christmas season. Let's pray. Father, we give you thanks that you are a God who raises the dead. Where there is death, you bring life. We see that supremely in Jesus Christ, our Lord.
But Lord, we also see in this text that where there is suffering, where there is pain, where there is discouragement, where there are hard times, that is where you love to work. You love to work where there's death. You love to work when we're down and to bring us back up. And Lord, we pray for each one of us that we will put our hope in you, that we will hope in God for we shall again praise him because he is our God. We pray this in Christ's name. Amen.